Monday, July 30, 2007
A6 vs System 100M | System 100M vs A6
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Via Javier:
"Hi Matrix,
I did a comparison between the A6 and Roland System 100M after reading some people´s comments about the A6 not sounding "vintage". I posted it here [electro-music.com]. and the link is this [Twango embedded above]. To make it more fun, I´m not going to tell which is which, and I´ll let people decide. If you want you can post it in your site, with a poll or something. One synth´s on the left, the other on the right. One of the sides has a little beep at the beginning for avoid confusion between left and right channel. So, which synth´s on the click side??? (there´re some cues that may help, because I did it very fast and left some details unpolished)"
Vote for which yuo think sounds more vintage, aka the Roland.
54 comments:
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MATRIXSYNTH is supported by affiliate links that use cookies to track clickthroughs and sales. See the privacy policy for details.
MATRIXSYNTH - EVERYTHING SYNTH
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Nice idead ! It would be fun to do
ReplyDeletethis with the Roland Jupiter 8 / Arturia Jupiter 8V !
HAAHAH!!!! I love this. I don't know which one sounds more vintage but it sounds killer in stereo!
ReplyDeleteYeah Stereo is very good...
ReplyDeleteCome on experts!
BTW, I choosed the most 'wild' tone, with some harshness in it.
I think that conversion/compression generate a very loud artifact that's really disturbing.
I can say, anyway, that with those simple sounds is really difficult to discriminate..
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ReplyDeleteThanx hexfix93!
ReplyDeleteMost sounds has the fastest envelope attack time(the first one is a good example). I have to say that being really honest, the A6 has faster envs and lower bass than the Sys100M.
There´s a fat brass in there too.
I read an interview of you (like you was Trent Reznor or something) saying that you didn´t like the A6, so I have to think your opinion is biased. You should have more respect for the work of other people. Maybe because you still don´t know which the Roland is... JZ:
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ReplyDeletehexfix93,
ReplyDeleteNo snappy envelopes, not good bass?
Check this:
http://www.twango.com/media/juno6.public/
juno6.10006
(Matrix, you can put this up if you want.)
It´s just one voice, no eq or fx. Not the fastest (ultra) env mode.
I also had an SH-2 and used Minimoogs btw.
JZ:
What the hell are you saying about the A6 envelopes ??? which issue are tou speaking about ???
ReplyDeletePut them in ultra percussive mode if you want fast snappy env.
C'mon Hexfix93 if YOU can't get that sound is a your problem, not an A6 problem. Perhaps It's too complex for you... go with some simple one osc synth like the sh1.
My A6 is here near the voyager. I have done some leads that bites more than the voyager.
About the moog growl... well only the moog has it... that's one of the moog feature. No other analog has that kind of growl, nor the A6 which has a different one.
Damn ppl I have to post some sound I have done with the A6 !!! or... well no I don't want waste my time
... Do you hate the A6? ok It's a your problem. The A6 is an amazing analog beast both in poly and mono mode.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe A6 certainly can do very fast envelopes, I think a lot of people knock it because it is not the best synth to program (the reason I sold mine) Personally I think Alesis did a great job on the A6 (best poly analog ever?) but I also think they put too much in it, if they had limited it to one knob for each parameter and reduced the number of parameters to make it feasable it would have been much more popular, but less powerful. So I guess they made the right decision from a product point of view, but not from a sales point of view.
ReplyDeleteThe presets sucked (apart from about 30) the fx were pointless and made it sound bad like a VA, and the complexity of the UI contributed to its mixed reputation, but as a synth if you are prepared to spend the time with it there is no doubt it can do some stunnning sounds, just ask Orbital :)
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ReplyDelete"this thing has issues. its not perfect."
ReplyDeleteEnough.
Hexfix93, stop trolling now please.
JZ:
The CS80 is the best poly synth ever.
ReplyDeleteDamn porch monkeys.
The A6 is alright. But the build quality is crap. It's up there with new roland synths.
I know Air used the A6 all over their last 2 albums, the Charlotte Gainsbourg album, the Darkel album and those records sound pretty amazing to me.
ReplyDeleteI'm very well versed on programming, and I have to agree that the A6 is not anything special. It does a LOT....but it does it mediocre-ly. I personally prefer many synths. Each only does a little...but does is OUTSTANDING-ly.
ReplyDeleteAnyone defending the A6 has simply fallen victim to a common human psychological weakness. He who invests great time or money into somethng, tends to like it, weather they really do or not.
A6=good on paper, bad on tape
hexfix93: "i have yet to hear the a6 in a mix in a song that i like.."
ReplyDeleteAnswer:
Nine Inch Nails, Jamiroquai, Pet Shop Boys, BT, Chemical Brothers, Paul Van Dyk, Duran Duran, Planet Funk, Jean Michel Jarre, Blondie, Killing Joke, Klaus Schulze, Yes, Air, Roger Manning, Crystal Method, Roni Size, Scissor Sisters, Tiesto, Orbital, etc.
You know, just some fools that din´t realize yet that the A6 envelopes have that "OOOOOOOOGGGGGGG type elephanty slow girthy un graceful nature to the shape of the sound."
LOL!!!
JZ:
Regarding the envs, there was an OS updated to address this. It was a known issue with the released OS.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the build quality, I heard it used military grade components. The thing is a tank. The one thing that probably leads people into thinking the quality isn't that great is the weight of the knobs. They have a light feel to them which can actually be night. Kind of like the difference between a Voyager and a Little Phatty. The LP being lighter with less resistance. Aside from the plastic sides, it's all metal including the surface. It's a heavy mother as well because of all the metal. The synth is solid.
Regarding the OOGY sound, imo it is a bit beefy and hard to tame off the bat, but like someone above stated, if you want that cleaner less fuzzy analog sound, start with one OSC, no effects and go from there. It is one of those synths that suffers from having too much. The early analog monos are pretty basic and because of that you can't really stray away from what they are good at like you can with the Andromeda.
ReplyDeleteAs for hexfix93 trolling, I don't think he is. We talked a little about the A6 in his interview. It's his opinion and if you read his comments above, he does state he likes the A6 for other things.
BTW, during the interview I asked Hexfix93 offline if he tried the OS update that addressed the env issue, I didn't get an answer and forgot to ask again as I was more interested in what else we were discussing at the time.
That said, Hexfix93, did you ever try the OS update that took care of the envs?
Regarding my first comment, "They have a light feel to them which can actually be night." should be "They have a light feel to them which can actually be nice."
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTake a look at section 11.7 in the A6TipsAndTricks. By default the A6 is set to normal. It can be set to slow, mushy, normal, fast and then ultra with the new OS. I have 1.40 and verified it was set to normal by default.
ReplyDeletespeaking of slow envelopes... my EML 101 has really slow envlopes. sometimes i feel like i can press the a key down, let it go, and not hear anything. its still my favorite synth of all time.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey Hexfix93 we all got the idea of what you think of it.
ReplyDeleteYou´re getting pathological. You repeated the same things around 100 times. Are you retarded or something?
Now, STOP TROLLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ReplyDeleteHey, I listened to the recording and thought that based on that I wasn't much interested in the A6 or the System 100m. Seriously, hexfire's Jupiter 8 demo's sound really good. I'd like to know if the A6 is up to that or not so why not try and duplicate some of those sounds. Neither the sounds nor what's recorded are particularly complex. I don't mean that as an insult btw, just that there should be no problem duplicating them if the A6 is up to it.
ReplyDeleteThe comments on EGs are interesting. Particularly since the Juno 106 has CPU generated envelopes. The SH101 and most other roland synths use roland custom chips. The Voyetra uses SSM chips.
Why have the A6 emulate the Jupiter-8? Why not have the System 100M emulate it? Or how about seeing if the Jupiter-8 can emulate the A6? I don't think it can hold a torch to some of what the A6 can do. Seriously, it can't. And... there is a good reason for it. They are different synths. You don't buy a Jupiter-8 for MOOG sounds and vice versa. You buy a synth for what it can do. The point of all of this isn't whether the A6 can emulate anything, but whether or not it can stand on it's own as a powerful analog synth. And... it can. The point of the poll was to see if people leaned towards one or the other. Take a look at the results.
ReplyDeleteFun post. I liked the non-clicking sound more. I have no idea which is which.
ReplyDeleteI agree with hexfix about some envelopes, even really fast ones, just not having the right shape/resolution/whatever for plucky/snappy sounds. Maybe it's just mushed transients due to signal path, maybe it's the envelopes, I don't know.
It's so difficoult to take the Andy for what is it?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think a lot of us has more than one synth? Why ppl doesn't claim that the Virus TI doesn't sound like a Nordlead ?
The A6 is not a Moog, not a jupiter, not a SHwhatyouwant, not a sunsin...
The A6 is simply the A6 nothing more nothing less. Each synth is special ! Take an old Roland D50... a digital synth. Try to emulate the incredible warm resonance sweeps of it if you can... use analogs or what you want..
Nobody says that the A6 replaces something. It's simply another amazing synth out there.
Nobody force you to buy it. So please don't badmouth it only because you don't like it.
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ReplyDeleteHaving listened to Hexfix's Jup8 demos there, I think I can see exactly what he means by snappy envs. So it would be good to hear some examples of the A6 doing the same kind of thing for comparison. Maybe a demo of the difference between 'mushy', 'fast', and 'ultra' settings would be interesting too.
ReplyDeleteWhy does everyone care that one guy on here doesn't like the synth? It's not like you're going to change his mind, people.
ReplyDeleteThe argument that ppl investing a lot of money in the synth defend it blindly is without foundation. I sold my A6 (for almost the same it cost me) not because I did not like it but because I did not like programming it, as for the sound I really could not fault it, and if alesis did a cutdown version with one knob per parameter and none of the extra stuff I'd buy it immediately. For the same reason I don't like the voyager, its not always about the sound, its how immediate and useful it is.
ReplyDeleteThis has nothing to do with being lazy or not being able to program because I have done factory presets for synths, but its to do with can I work quickly with the synth to get what I want and in the case of the A6 and to a lesser degree the Voyager they were not for me, give me a modular with a physical interface and I'm in (analog!) heaven. For the same reason I don't like softsynths and music software, too much gumpf gets in the way. One control per parameter and a clean usable interface means I can get on with making music and not scrolling menus.
I don't have a clue which is which on the demo, they both sound equally good, but I'd take the 100m over the A6 just because the interface. Good programming my man :)
hey guys,from the point u record analog in digital,it always get an digitalised color,the original 'body' is gone,so these 'internet'comparisations are worthless.
ReplyDelete(i have a big 100M,and also used the A6...)
so which is which in the demo?
ReplyDeleteLOL, so unless you record your synths thru 100% analog signal path and onto analog tape then you can't differentiate? BS if ever I have heard it.
ReplyDeleteIt's kind of funny that most people won't commit to an answer though, so maybe the A6 is better than given credit for.
Well the time has come.
ReplyDeleteThe poll won´t be closed by Matrix, but I´ll write here the statics up to this moment.
Votes: 60
With click: 48% (29 votes)
No click: 52% (31 votes)
The Answer is: the System 100M is in the side with the click. The A6 won as sounding more "vintage".
Make your own conclutions.
JZ:
How to you want to compare 2 synth with a poor MP3 compression , a with a SOUND PATCH like this....... As it has been told..... we need some snappy ENV....MOre BASS sound....... and not in MP3..........
ReplyDeleteIt´s 320kbp LAME MP3 compression, you won´t get better compression than this. I have the WAV and can´t hear any difference. Do you want a poll to say which file is MP3 and which is WAV???? LOL
ReplyDeleteThe second sound it a saw thru filter, with no resonance on the 100M and quite a bit on the A6 to remove the low end, so it was as low as the 100M can go in that configuration. Same with the brass.
I compared a 70´s modular synth with a chip based 2000´s polysynth.
Shouldn´t be more obvious???
I think that the comparison is fair, I compared resonance, 1 osc patch, two oscillators patch, different envelope setting, and even filter FM...
I guess you voted for the A6...
JZ:
I love how this got turned into a comparison for some other mp3. Too funny. BTW, try comparing an OB-Xa to a Jupiter-8 some day and tell me which one sounds more "vintage" based on that arpeggio. I guarantee you they will sound very different.
ReplyDeleteha ha ha...
ReplyDeleteppl badmouthing the A6 to sound no vintage gets a big kick in the a@@...
Now they're trolling about compression... ha ha ha...
what a funny poll !!!
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ReplyDeleteThe problem is in making sweeping generalizations. Instead of saying the A6 doesn't sound vintage, say, the A6 doesn't have envelops I like or I haven't been able to hear the A6 do a certain type of sound. Be specific and it'll save a lot of time and trolling in both directions.
ReplyDeleteSo, as for the general notion of whether the A6 can sound vintage or not, I think the answer is yes.
Can it make the sounds heard in the Jupiter-8 mp3? Who knows. I don't have the time or desire to try it myself. And if it can't? Who cares, neither can the OB-Xa, the Memory MOOG, others? All synths are different.
ROFLMAO!
ReplyDeleteThe naysayers have egg on their face, but IT MUST have been the mp3 compression clouding their golden ears right?
Snappy envelopes? Didn't sound too sluggish to me, and the 100m has amongst the snappiest envelopes.
I guess a lot of ex-A6 owners just were not very good programmers.
Time and again I have heard people slating the A6, on AH a while back there was a moog/A6 comparison and guess what? Yep a lot of people got that wrong too, are we done here?
So in summary the A6 is a worthy synth, IF your programming skills are adequate, if not quit saying the A6 can't do x,y,z because I have heard plenty of good stuff from it.
Hey, I liked the Andy better than the 100M. I have to remember never to buy a 100M system ;D But yeah, Matrix is right, all synths sound different, so the answer is to get them all! ;) I like the Sunsyn better than the Andromeda for most sounds, but that doesn't mean that I don't want an Andromeda. I'd love to have an Andromeda!
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't understand is how hexfix was supposedly trolling? I really don't.
this is the dumbest thread ever on here. who the hell cares if somebody doesnt like your favorite synth? why are people so offended if you dont agree? (reminds me of all the Nuendo people a few years back who had to keep reminding me how much better than ProTools it is) of course you can do alot with an A6. i've made an entire record on a K2000 years ago and no one complained. personally, as a pro user, i would want everyone to think my favorite synth sucks or doesnt exist, so theres more unique stuff to be had. also the slowest envs ever (imo) have to be the OB-MX..
ReplyDeleteThe bomb exploded only because A6 owners are a little tired of always the same ppl badmouthing this synth.
ReplyDeleteFor the same price of a DIGITAL VA Virus TI you got a real 16 voice analog with full midi, arpeggiator, stepsequencer, hires NRPN controller, graphic display, inputs to process external signal... an on board digital FX and analog distorsion... C'mon ppl what are talking about? It sounds great, the price is relatively low (compare to a 5 voice PEK). What's the problem? The only problem I see is Numark who bought Alesis and killed the project. If you want to shoot someone, well shoot Numark headless Marketing. They have a beast in their hand but are doing nothing to sell it. That's the REAL problem about the A6. It's all in the users hand.
Peace.
It also matters to those researching the synth for purchase. I always found the more information you had before a purchase, the better. And it looks like we lost some of that. It is sad when communication goes south. When you communicate online, you lose the intonations and interactions you would have in person. It's too easy to go on the defense and assume the worst in others.
ReplyDeleteA6?
ReplyDeleteI like Turtles!
Best thread ever!
ReplyDeleteI think it raises a good point. Yes, all synths are different, but can really tell the difference between particular synths in blind tests? Assuming reasonable comparisons with similar patches with good programming of course.
I liked what keyboard wizard did with the Rogue and the Little Phatty a while back. Of course, we could see which was which, but let's say we couldn't.
I'd like to see more of this. And I don't think hexfix93 was trolling. I just don't agree with him, but his points are worths stating. Pity he removed them all.
Don´t feel pity for hexfix93, if you look at previous posts of him you´ll find he´s not just giving his opinion, he has an attitud of trying to irritate people, with (technical) facts that where untrue in many cases.
ReplyDeleteI don´t think that JP8 mp3 was that hard to copy if I had a pic of the front panel (or a JP8).
JZ: